Guns

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pmconusa
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Guns

Guns
Following the recent Florida mass killing it might be useful to examine the gun situation in a variety of countries for some hint at not why guns, but their use.

The countries I have chosen are the United States, Switzerland, Saudi Arabia and India. The reason is that I have lived in each of them, two for a number of years. Three are Democracies, Saudi Arabia being a Monarchy
In each one of these countries it is legal for private citizens to own guns. The rate of gun ownership per 100,000 persons varies considerably. In the United States it is 101/100,000, in Switzerland 46/100,000, in Saudi Arabia it is 35/100,000 and in India 3.36/100,000.

The incarceration rates for felons, whether their felony was committed with a firearm or not is; 147 per 100,000 for the United States, 0.033/100,000 in India, .0012 for Switzerland, .0006 for Saudi Arabia. Of the latter, 75% of the prisoners are foreigners.

Despite these seeming differences, three of the these countries, namely India, Saudi Arabia and Switzerland have one thing in common; that is they do not have trial by jury. India and Switzerland did at one time, India abolished not too long after the British relinquished control in 1949 and only one Canton in Switzerland still maintains a jury system, but not like that of the U. S. Saudi Arabia, under Sharia law, never allowed trial by jury but does permit appeal. In all three, the prosecution gathers evidence against the accused and it is the accused that has the obligation to prove innocence. I am unaware of the appeal process in India or Switzerland but in Saudi Arabia you can appeal to a higher religious authority but run the risk of your punishment being increased if your appeal is denied. Many of my fellow oil company associates who worked in Saudi Arabia back in the 1950s still recall being gathered together at the main gate at quitting time on the last day of the work week by the religious police to bear witness to a beheading.

It is difficult to compare death penalty statistics, particularly with regard to Saudi Arabia because under Sharia, several crimes, such as adultery and drug smuggling carry the death penalty. Switzerland does not impose a death penalty except for treason. India has only 402 prisoners awaiting execution and Saudi Arabia has none, because the sentence is usually carried out in less than two weeks after conviction. In the United States 23 prisoners were executed in 2017 and nearly 3,500 currently await execution. In 2014 alone over 8,000 murders were committed with firearms in the United States. In 2017 Chicago alone counted over 700. Most of these will never be prosecuted because the police are loath to even enter the area where the majority are committed and you can’t blame them because chances are if they use force to remand the perpetrators they themselves will be prosecuted.
You can punish a murderer and by putting him immediately to death remove the possibility of them committing another and to serve as a deterrent to those who may contemplate it. You cannot prevent it from being perpetrated. John Kennedy found that out as did Ronald Reagan, even after presidential security was beefed up and procedures altered to where he was fortunately only wounded. Suicide bombers murdered over 3000 on 9/11 and continue to do so around the world primarily because we have turned much of the world into a police state where the criminals are free and the law abiding is subjected to constraints similar to a prison.

All evidence exposed to date on the Florida killings indicate that this perpetrator could have been prevented from executing his known threats against those he believed deprived him of a future. In addition, they indicate that during the perpetration of his crime, law enforcement did not react sufficiently to mitigate the carnage.

I was born before the great depression began but not cognizant of its impact until after its affects had been abated by the breakout of World War II. I do recall being taught good and bad in church that was further reinforced at home with my nuclear family; a father, mother and one younger brother who did not come along until 1939. Despite the despair foisted upon those 25% of the working population I believe theft and certainly murder was the least things being considered, even by those most impacted by the loss of their jobs. The fact that nature caused their misfortune, would ultimately return to normal and their fellow citizens shared what they had to try and tide them over, gave them the hope that was finally rewarded by the patience to weather it out.

People fail to realize how difficult it is to steal and yet still easy to murder. In a cashless society you must resort to extremes to be able to get money on which to live and to do that you need get into the drug trade which people are trying to make legal and would put an end to illicit drug trade and cost thousands of paying jobs for drug traffickers. It is either that or go back to live with your parents because you must work to earn a living and there are more workers being created than jobs for them to work at. Where there are jobs in the private sector, employers are doing their very best to reduce the number of employees because labor is an increasing variable cost determined by the government.

The Florida shooter had no family, his adoptive mother was dead. He had no family, employed or on Social Security to fall back on and his job hopes, even at McDonald’s was hampered by the many others who would have been selected before him. What do you do when the only out was to join the growing number of homeless now flocking to our cities to beg for money to keep up a drug habit and hope for a meal at one of the charity kitchens? Whether consciously or not, he chose the out that will not only give him some sort of notoriety but insure that he will never have to work for a living again. The government will house, clothe and feed him for the rest of his life and provide medical care if he needs it in surroundings complete with library, recreation and camaraderie of people just like himself.

My point is we have become wimps when it comes to crime, particularly violent crime and our economic system is breeding more of the type than we are removing and can expect more in the future as our economic system churns out more and more of them. Let’s just hope the homeless don’t figure out it is easier to commit a violent crime than to expect charity.

Bruce Libby
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tI's Wednesday ! WTF !

It's Wednesday !

WTF !

Melvin Udall
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With such profound messages

With such profound messages and brilliance, why does he waste his time on a useless collection (small in size) of no-accounts, dolts, and layabouts? Surely there must be an audience of greater import for these works....

pmconusa
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UTWAR

UTWAR

Toolsmith
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Working up to a Manifesto?

Working up to a Manifesto?

Bruce Libby
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I believe he is already

I believe he is already there, checkout his new post.

knucklehead
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Guys - Why the stone throwing

Guys - Why the stone throwing? Yeah, it's hard to stay focused and read long things. And sometimes PM throws stones back. So what? Do we want to sink to levels we despise in others? Let's not.

PM, as in other posts, you point to a systemic breakdown of morality, which is manifested (pun intended) not in failed government or schools or even churches, but in our hearts. You approach that with your comments about family near the end of your post. We have all, one way or another, left the "level path" and struck out to create our own morality or set of virtues, and that is the ultimate arrogance - a rejection of our Creator and His guidance. It is endemic to humans, whether we are Mother Theresa or Charlie "Crazy eyes" Manson.

Our Judeo Christian roots held us together for a long time; but that foundation has eroded. There is only one belief system in the world where the Diety reaches out to a powerless humanity (Through the sacrifice of Christ on the cross). All others demand continual sacrifice from humanity in pursuit of an unsure redemption after death. The way we return to what we all think is the "right way" is not through elections or laws or even revolution, but through the personal redemption afforded by our Creator, through Jesus Christ. Faith alone, in Christ alone, by Grace alone

Bruce Libby
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Because he has thrown stones

Because he has thrown stones from his first day on AMG.
Has refused well intentioned suggestion on how to get his point across without his offensiveness.

As for his stand on constitution and its' failings, since it was based on the belief of the Diety granted rights ,in the declaration,
it is also totally wrong as he will soon explain to you.

pmconusa
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Knucklehead: The Judeo

Knucklehead: The Judeo/Christian underpinnings of morality and ethics relies solely on self governance. If you separate the parts of the Ten Commandments that relate to the worship of God they boil down to stealing and even the thought of it. As Madison so aptly pointed out, if all men were angels, in other words govern themselves by not disobeying His law, there would be no need for government. Then he adds the critical BUT. If men are to govern men they must first govern themselves. When you read the book of Leviticus in its translation from the Hebrew, the punishment for stealing was death. Someone however had to make that determination unless the guilty admitted his sin. Therein lies the opportunity to obtain leniency or even absolution which is not given without something in return. What has evolved over the centuries since are elaborate mechanisms to avoid punishment, contrived by those who exempt themselves and others or benefit financially to look the other way. People who benefit from this system are loath to see it changed, but the number of those who don't is growing rapidly. In my books, parts of which I have posted on this blog, I point out how this happened and how it will ultimately result in government failure as has and is happening elsewhere with increasing frequency. It has little to do with morality and more to do with with greed.

Melvin Udall
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Finally.....something we

Finally.....something we haven't heard before. It's about time.

knucklehead
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PM - but greed is immoral, so

PM - but greed is immoral, so it does have to do with morality, or the lack thereof. And neither Leviticus nor other books of the Law (which has been pre-empted by Jesus Christ) state a death penalty for stealing, unless one steals a man and sells him, which is kidnapping. You could say that the penalty for stealing someone's life, sexuality, or freedom (murder, rape, and kidnapping) is death.

Colossians 1 says that Jesus existed prior to and was the Creator of the world, and that He is actively engaged in the world. The paradox is that we have free will, and are free to experience the consequences of our choices, so we have evil in the world, and we see innocent people getting hurt. Rather than proving the non-existence of God as some contend (you can't prove a negative), it actually proves the fallacy of human efforts to redeem themselves or anyone else.

As mentioned before, there is only one belief system in the world where the diety reaches down to humanity with an offer of grace based, entirely free redemption..

pmconusa
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What good is claiming

What good is claiming immorality is evil and then let it go unpunished? Read Leviticus if you believe the Bible and the laws of God. Immorality, that is stealing what does not belong to you, was punished by stoning to death. The reason was two fold, to punish the wrong doers and dissuade others who may do wrong. That actually appears in one of the many translations of Leviticus.

As an example. If the murderer of those kids in Florida had committed that crime in Saudi Arabia, under Sharia law, he would have already been tried and executed. Under U.S. law, not only will he never be executed, he will be provided a taxpayer paid for lawyer who will drag the final judgement out for months if not years, he may even get him a reduced sentence or like O. J. Simpson play on a juries sympathy for why he did what he did and let him off completely. Because the death penalty may be involved, he is not even permitted to confess.

We are no longer ruled by our conscience but by others. Those others chose to ignore what is written in the Bible and the Constitution and apply it only when it suits them.

Mike G
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Actually a trial in the FL

Actually a trial in the FL case is exactly what America needs, a full and lengthy trial, with all the camera shots, all the recovered casings, ballistic evidence everything. When have we had detailed trials in any of these gun free zone killings, seems all hush hush, it's for the victims don't you know, Americans can't handle looking at dead children, not at home or in the thousands of children that have been killed overseas on our dime.

Something stinks in all this, I hear they are hoping the killer will confess so there will be no need for a trial. How convenient, please shield my eyes dear government from the horrors of the world. Crock of shit.

Bruce Libby
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knucklehead

knucklehead
Have you figured it out yet ?

Mike G
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Bruce

Bruce

If you think pm rants are BS, why do you constantly bring them up to the top of AMG',s list?

Bruce Libby
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Mike G.

Mike G.
I don't but I do find them wrong in most cases,but there is no sense to question him or offer anything to him.
Besides he is fun something definitely lacking on this forum lately.

While i have your attention. If you want to see the evidence presented in any trial on shooter ,go to Florida and attend trial or any other proceedings..

pmconusa
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Bruce: If you find them

Bruce: If you find them wrong please don't hold back and tell us what is right.

Melvin Udall
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As if you wouldn't do the

As if you wouldn't do the "Bruce, you're wrong shtick..."

I have caught you twisting your semantics and narrative into unsupportable inferences, only to watch you go into your contortionist act with a sideshow of bearded ladies to help you get the attention off your bobble-gobble-double speak.

Rule 1: pm is right

Rule 2: if pm is wrong, see rule 1

Bruce Libby
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pmconusa

pmconusa
Since I was reaponding to Mike G it is not necessary to do so.
However ,my friend Mel has given a applicable response. But I think I will just
resort to the three letter answer/comment , which is the same as my friends offering.

pmconusa
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Mike G: Name a single trial

Mike G: Name a single trial of a serial murderer that has not deteriorated into a media circus? You forget that most of these killers have been killed by the police or themselves while in the commission of the act, hence no trial. As said earlier, if this had happened in Saudi Arabia, the killer would have already been tried, convicted and executed only days after commission of the deed. That is why there are so few murders in Saudi Arabia and those that do occur are committed by non-Saudis. There is much to be said for the adage, "if you don't want the time, don't do the crime". The beneficiaries and the instigators of the system of so-called jurisprudence in the United States is the work of lawyer politicians who have insured their need and income from the monster they have created. The crimes not only include murder but usury and extortion; the former practiced by every bank and every retailer who extends credit. Extortion is what corporate executives employ to give themselves atrocious salaries and what the unions employ against their employer.

Bruce Libby
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W TF

W TF

Mike G
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As said earlier, if this had

As said earlier, if this had happened in Saudi Arabia, the killer would have already been tried, convicted and executed only days after commission of the deed.

How is that any different then trial by media circus or just shooting them. Nicholas Cruz wasn't even in the school when arrested, there was no smoking gun in his hand, seems like he might have grounds for a fair trial, even if he confesses, shouldn't the government prove that he was the only shooter?

Similar to the Murray Fed bldg bombing in Okla city, what happened to mysterious second man?

Or Twin Towers, never treated as a crime scene but what? an act of war.

In FL how many empty shell casings are scattered throughout the school, did they examine them all to see if they came from one gun or were they just thrown in the trash? Questions never answered, all above our pay grade, we don't have the right to know. If you question official edict you are a conspiracy theorist, where is your tin foil hat? My rebuttal is where is your dunce cap America?

Bruce Libby
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With all due respect

With all due respect understand Mel has the rules down pat.
Response in 3 letters covers everything .

pmconusa
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MikeG: The media does not

MikeG: The media does not have the authority to accuse try and convict but they do so anyway. The religious police who prosecute Sharia law are similar to our law enforcement but they are not swayed by emotion or public clammier. The grandson of King Feisel who shot him during one of his usual Thursday meetings with representatives of the public was captured by the people attending the meeting (majlis), tried by the religious police, pronounced guilty and beheaded within one week of the act. I was living in Saudi Arabia at the time so I am keenly aware of what took place.

Our "justice" system under the Constitution and the constitution of the State of Maine does not opine that a person is innocent until proven guilty. That is a position created buy the legal establishment to insure their continued employment. It also reads a person has a right to counsel, a right that can be waived as it has in many cases where the defendant has been exposed to trial and conviction by vigilantes or the press as were a few police officers recently in Maryland. It also doesn't say that right to counsel means the state must provide it. Whitely Bulger who had murdered himself or had through others knew he was guilty, had salted away hundreds of thousands of dollars which he probably currently taps to make his life easy in prison, was provided a taxpayer paid attorney at his trial so he didn't have to spend a penny.

It is much harder to prove guilt, particularly after the act has been performed and the perpetrator no longer on the scene, than it is to prove innocence. All you have to do is prove you were not there to commit the act for which you have been accused. Its how Al Capone escaped all but the tax man for his entire criminal career.

There were over 700 homicides in Chicago last year. How many of the perpetrators have been brought to justice? How many stories of those accused and tried have you read about in the national media? When you answer these questions you will confirm that the criminal justice system in this country is a joke and why people are afraid to walk the streets at night in many of our urban areas. When I lived in Saudi Arabia for nearly 15 years I never once feared that my home would be broken into, that I would be assaulted on the streets, even after dark and certainly never feared for my life.

Mike G
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I just want to know the truth

I just want to know the truth, Pmcon, or which is more likely, someone's version of the truth, but that is just the reality of our propagandized society.

Mueller will spend millions on prosecuting Russians who put some biased views on facebook and a witch hunt against Trump, and McCain, Graham, Schumer will call Russian interference an act of war, yet Seth Rich who very likely supplied Wikileaks with downloaded DNC dirt on Hilliary, rots in the grave, with absolutely no investigation by the DC police or others.

Julian Assange rots in an Ecuadorean consulate and is imprisoned by the UK and US there due completely to the fact that he calls out our corrupt rotten political system.

If I want to live in a town where I don't have to lock my doors or walk the streets at night without fear, I'll live in Maine and carry a gun. Private security is secondary to me, it's the BS that society pulls that will take that all away that is primary at this point. That loss of freedom "Trumps" any criminal activity at least where I sit.

And it should be no matter where you sit, because if your government is corrupt, they pose more danger than any B & E guy.

pmconusa
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Mike G: You are entitled to

Mike G: You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts. Progressives have gotten control by hiding the facts, like the candle under the bushel basket. If you are not allowed to see them you are only left to believe what they tell you. The facts are that Hillary won. She garnered more votes than Trump but lost anyway because some votes count more than others. If you tally the states by popular votes alone, which is what the founders feared, several presidents would not have been elected. But city votes count for more because of the system that was established to insure that the urban vote would count more than the rural vote. It is also why we have gerrymandering by the political parties to insure this system will not change.

Mueller has so far uncovered no "evidence" of Russian meddling in the election that would have significantly changed the outcome. Hillary would have probably won even more votes had it not been for both Bernie Sanders and the leaks of her and her henchmen's emails by WikiLeaks that exposed her conniving not only against the American people with her and Bills "Clinton Trust" which is purely an influence based organization trading access to policy and authorizing persons within the government in exchange for contributions.

Mueller will not investigate the Clinton's because he will find, what has already been exposed and that is the Clinton illegal and unethical activities and that would still not give her the Presidency. She is still extremely influential as head of the Democrat Party because the bulk of government operatives are loyal to the party for their jobs.

When you expose the truth, the Progressives go into defense mode because they don't won't you to find out how they have been swindling you. They cannot attack the message because the truth stands well on it own so they attack the messenger. You will note that two of my most ardent critics never come and say that the facts I cite are false because they can't. They demean the messenger as a crank, or other even more derogatory names in a failing effort to deny the facts or the conclusion one can draw from them. After several years of failure they are now down to WTF, although one still clings to the argument that I am wrong but will not put forth what is right. They also claim I spout gobble-d-gook yet fail to point out any specific references. Yes, I have been wrong on some things in the past and have acknowledged that fact as soon as the wrong has been pointed out.

There is a saying, learn the truth and the truth shall set you free. In my efforts at exposing the truth, the consequence has mostly been the knowledge that you have been taken all these years to a point where you can do nothing to change the condition to which you have been put.

What the Progressives fail to realize is their largess comes at a price their grandchildren are now going to pay. As I have pointed out, the United States is the wealthiest nation on earth because it produces more food than our population consumes. I have also pointed out we import enough to feed over 75 million but export enough to sustain 200 million or more. but to export that much requires subsidies and even with subsidies we have reached maximum yield and are actually reducing production of the most valuable of these agricultural assets and that is our wheat and corn crops. When that population comes to the U. S. either as refugees or is bred internally we will have reached a point where consumption equals production. It is so close now that you can actually calculate with a relatively high degree of accuracy when rationing will have to be introduced. You can read all about it in my post of a week or so ago titled, Bears Don't Need Money. In it I cite facts the Progressives don't want you to know and are trying their best to discredit. Unfortunately the statistics come from their own Government.

If we are to believe the story of Adam and Eve, they lived happily in the garden until they were tempted by the devil to steal God's apple. We know how Eve was created but where did the devil come from? The answer is immaterial but it explains how man came to learn wealth is power and every government contrived since the Garden has been controlled by men with power to influence the distribution of nature's wealth.

Bruce Libby
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Mike G

Mike G
Have you gotten it yet ?
Remember rule #1and 2
3 word reply.

Illlustrated by: "but you are not entitled to your own facts".

Mike G
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You are entitled to your own

You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts. Progressives have gotten control by hiding the facts, like the candle under the bushel basket. If you are not allowed to see them you are only left to believe what they tell you. The facts are that Hillary won. She garnered more votes than Trump but lost anyway because some votes count more than others. If you tally the states by popular votes alone, which is what the founders feared, several presidents would not have been elected.

Bruce

If you actually read between the lines or just the lines of Pmcon, you can read that he is not off base.

Instance< Hilliary won, now that seems confrontational, but it is not in reality, the fact that the founders wanted the congre college speaks volumes as to their knowledge that the majority are not to be trusted, otherwise known as the tyranny from the majority. And more important the tyranny of more populated states over the less populated, with the all inclusive mindblowing federal powers, we forget that our original pact was between states. Or at least until Pmcon tells me different : ) and of course the legislative branch in the house is more or less dependent on population, but the senate and executive branch is still held by somewhat state's rights

Here's a point., notice that the FL legislature didn't deny those no nothing 18 year olds from voting in the next election. Now there would be a damn good point, you 18 to 21 year old assholes don't know your ass from a hole in the ground and obviously can't be assigned as a citizen, wait three year you assholes.

Also as far as food, that goes to truth, I suspect that Russia and China know that they don't wait for the collective as much to decide when to get off their ass and grow something for profit, will progress, actually when you think about it from past history the grain imports into China and Russia have decreased from the US.

No PMconusa has his points, food feeding the masses will have a big impact, or just a bullet.

Bruce Libby
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Mike G

Mike G

The only thing between the lines is blank space that he will fill with nothingness.
Rule #1 and 2.

P.S. you are allowed an opinion not facts ,how nice of him.

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